tv Charlie Rose Bloomberg August 18, 2014 10:00pm-11:01pm EDT
the manufacturers of zmapp say they have exhausted supplies of that experimental treatment. where does the crisis go from here? laurie garrett is an author and has won a pulitzer prize for her coverage of the ebola outbreak of 2005. -- of 1995. i am pleased to have her here. you are writing a piece that will go online soon. you are saying, world, you do not get it. what don't we get? >> we don't get the enormity, the potential of this spreading to huge nations like nigeria and south africa, and that there is no magic bullet. we are not going to come riding in as the great, technological america with the magic treatment, the magic cure, the magic vaccine. we might have something to years from now, but not right now. we are building up a kind of response that is so anemic, so
much less than what is needed -- take, for example, liberia. they used to have a whopping 200 physicians for 4 million people. because of ebola deaths and fear, they are down to 50 doctors to take care of 4 million people. how can anyone imagine that you can treat all of the background diseases and illnesses, the routine car accident, the woman in labor, and handle this arable -- horrible epidemic with 50 doctors? >> what are the implications of that? >> the first thing i would say is the take-home message that i got from my experience in the ebola epidemic in 1995 in what was then called zaire, now the democratic republic of congo. the tough measures that we might think of as uncomfortable walks
over the lines of civil liberties are really what makes the difference. you have it force people into quarantine. you have to take the loved one out of that home, away from the screaming family members, and put them in a quarantine unit for the safety of everyone around. you cannot allow funerals. you have to force people to relinquish the dead. if you violate any of this in any cases, you lose control. you lose the ability to fight this virus. now what we are dealing with that we have never seen before in the history of what we know of ebola since 1976, when it first appeared, also in zaire, is that it is urbanized. you used to be able to wall off
a community or rural area, put the soldiers on the highways in the outside of town and prevent people from leaving the area and concentrate internally on the measures i was describing. now it is monrovia. it is the three giant cities of these three countries. >> you have got to have anybody who is infected with the ebola virus to be taken somewhere where they will not able to infect anybody else and they will sit there and die. >> 30% will survive. >> there is no known treatment. >> their own immune systems will combat the virus successfully. the death rate right now is running between 65%-70%. >> explained to me how it is -- explain to me how it is that
if you fly next to somebody, they will not necessarily get the ebola virus. on the other hand, if you are a doctor and you touch a dead body, you might get the ebola virus. >> you have got to consider the conditions. this is not medical care in new york city. you are inside of a space suit which can reach 121 degrees inside the suit because you are in the tropics, you are near the equator, and those suits are like wearing saran wrap. how long can anybody keep there -- their mind sharp in the kind of heat? pretty soon, you start getting sloppy. if there are not enough other doctors there to relieve you so that your ships run a reasonably -- shifts run a reasonably short amount of time, you will make mistakes. what is a mistake? you are trying to inject a needle into someone and you poke yourself. what is a mistake? >> the transference of fluids. >> absolutely. what is a mistake? you remove your gear, take your
gloves off, touch your mask and remove your mask -- you just infected yourself. >> what if we don't do that? what is going to happen? >> you mean if we all just sit back -- >> we just use everything now except for quarantine. what is going to happen in africa? >> it will continue to spread in these three countries. it will take a huge toll on countries that are already destabilized and have very weak governments. more and more people out of terror will start fleeing across borders by any means they can, taking the virus into neighboring countries. the borders are very porous. it is only a matter of time before one of the international responders, perhaps a journalist, ends up in lagos, johannesburg, rome, or london,
and does not realize they are infected and transmits to other people. we already had this happen once with patrick sawyer, a library and financial attaché who flew financial attaché who flew to lagos and infected a whole coterie of people at a business meeting and his health providers. >> i hear two things. number one, the fear -- on the other hand, people trying to pin down panic. i had a conversation with the head of the world bank and he was saying that they worry about panic. i assume because panic will make the risk greater. >> we have been through this before. you and i were on the air so many times in the 1980's at the beginning of the aids epidemic. what were we looking at? on one hand, you had larry kramer correctly saying, hello, everybody.
wake up. you are not paying attention and we are dying here. on the other hand, you had crazy people burning down homes, denying jobs, and abusing individuals who they thought had hiv. you had to walk that line. where is the panic point? where is the feeding the fuel bigotry and inappropriate response where, instead of people reacting against the micro, they are reacting against the human that has the micro? arehe microbe, they reacting against the human that has the microbe. you cannot keep complacent. you cannot keep saying, calm down. pretty soon, you are giving the message there is nothing to worry about. >> do you have an issue with any experimental serum there is? >> there is so little, it is really a non sequitur. there are three, by the way. not just one. three drugs and all of them have
novel message of reduction and they do not have standardization. they have never done commercial production. every step of the way is got to -- the way, you have got to be sure you are making what you think you are making. >> so if you have all the money in the world, you could not accelerate the production to get as much as you need right now? >> i do not think so. >> you could not take over whatever pharmaceutical company there is to make this drug? >> that is not what the ceo's of these companies say. they all say, it is tough. we cannot suddenly make a huge amount. again, they are using technologies and biological approaches that are new. keep in mind, you do not want contaminants. here is the potential foreign-policy nightmare. almost all of these drugs are coming from the united states or canada, except the glaxosmithkline english vexing
-- vaccine, possibly. what if we turn out to mass distribute something that turns out to do something like eventually make people blind or lose their hearing or things of that nature? what is the blowback? we have not done any safety trials for any of it. no humans have received these. >> have we been not trying to do something about ebola since you last wrote about it? >> yep. >> yep, that is the problem? >> yep, we have not tried. let me be clear about this. since 1995, with a few subsequent, much smaller outbreaks in africa, researchers at the national institute of health and a few other research institutions and pharmaceutical companies have tried to come up with cures to vaccines. -- cures and vaccines. but nothing has progressed to
the point of clinical trials. part of the reason is that profit incentive is very low for something that may have a use point very rarely. nobody could anticipate this particular outbreak. >> there is a piece in the new republic. i have seen your work against ebola. that is what we were talking about the beginning of this conversation. good to see you. thank you. >> ben brantley is here, the chief theater critics of "the new york times." he wrote the headline, "there was method in their madness." he looks at the performances of "hamlet" in the modern era. many great actors have talked it at this table. here's a look at some. >> i played hamlet very young and we went to play it at the castle. i remember when that date was
confirmed, i thought i had died and gone to heaven. >> when you shoot it, you do the last part of the soliloquy in a month -- >> it has such a natural progression. >> maybe that is the best way to do it. who knows? >> the most important word is at the end of the line. "to be or not to be, that is the question." the most important thought is not life or death, it is the question. >> the soliloquy, i did that one time to i was wearing my horn-rimmed spectacles. i had been wearing them and forgotten them. i played to be or not to be in
hornrimmed glasses. >> and he was chuckling. >> you regret most in your life not playing it. why? >> in my lifetime, i think that living life was a vocation. i said, i will do it next year. >> but he did tell you to do hamlet. >> marlon brando said, just drop out. drop out. just walk away. just take off. but i studied hamlet to play that part. he said, i never got a chance to play it. >> you do not play hamlet, hamlet plays you. it has to be feelings of life. the questions he raises, the
experience he is going through is a map through life. >> i am pleased to have been -- ben brantley back at the table. >> thank you very much. >> it is such an obvious idea for a theater critic or anybody interested in great theater. why this piece and how did you shape it? >> it was an assignment that was thrown out to the culture critics in general. imagine if you could curate your own exhibit or parade of elements anyway you like. it could be fantasy -- the series is called "imagine this." imagine if you could use any combination of elements whatsoever. i have seen probably 20, 25 hamlets over the course of my career. hamlet was the first
shakespearean figure i was aware of and got a hold of my imagination. the way sports figures sit down and say, what if it were babe ruth? we tend to think in those terms too. i put it in my fantasy olympics of great hamlets. >> great versus great. you went back to 1922. >> that was the year john barrymore took it to london. the british were a little less enthusiastic because he spoke the speech more conversationally than they were accustomed to. they were used it high-flown flights of rhetoric. everyone who saw it -- and this is really barrymore, just about 40, had not begun the downward slide into alcohol -- said it was truly riveting.
a truly visceral performance that you weren't used to in shakespeare. before that, there had been beautiful, poetic hamlets that had been castrated. they were essentially just their poetry. >> what is it about hamlet? >> first of all, it is irresistible when you are growing up. even though hamlet is probably close to 30 himself, he still seems like the ultimate adolescent avatar for our fantasies. he is the guy who rebels against the establishment and upsets an entire kingdom. he is not unlike holden caulfield. as you get older, you see hamlet as the ultimate coming-of-age story. we all have that moment in our lives when the phone rings or you get the letter or the telegraph or the e-mail saying,
dad died. the family business has gone bankrupt. your mother has left us. it is that moment when you think life will never be the same and everything that was in place to protect you is not there anymore. you have to reckon with the adult world as an adult yourself. you realize that, without all the safety nets you had before, it is a scary place. and you start to think about mortality for the first time in your life. >> what you just said is something the director of the public theater said to me. he said we are all hamlets because hamlet takes on who we are and speaks to us at any time. >> i think that is true. i think part of growing up is acknowledging mortality. it is something a lot of us put off indefinitely. hamlet reaches that moment when his father dies and he learns how horribly his father has
died. he thinks, how do we deal with it and how do i make something that is very wrong right? >> you look at the great actors, olivier, richard burton, barrymore, it is a most a coming-of-age for a good actor. you have to do this. >> what has been fascinating is that i have been in this job or going to the theater so that i can see actors progress through the generations of -- you know, it is romeo, hamlet, macbeth. everyone is doing king lear. >> we have some clips to show you throughout this conversation. john gilgood, who both played and directed hamlet. >> i do not understand so
excellent a king that was to this. i peer into a satire so loving to my mother that the winds of heaven is at her face. she would hang on him and what it said on. yet, within a month, the unthinkable. frailty, thy name is woman. >> he is still widely regarded as the most musical of hamlets. olivier did his hamlet a couple of years later with a more virile, gutsier, swashbuckling hamlet. >> a bit freudian? >> oh yes. the name of the man he consulted in lengths --
>> i know the name of the man. let's listen to what he said. >> once you have played it, it will devour you and upset you for the rest of your life. it has me. i think today about it. i will never play him again, of course. i wish i could. >> he was in his mid-70's when he wrote that, thinking, if i just had one more go of it. he did do it several times as far as the wide world is concerned in the film. >> and then there was richard burton. >> he was directed by john guilgood. the first time, he was probably influenced by just defaulting to the music, which is always a danger in doing shakespeare, where you ride the poetry and forget the person the poetry is coming from. but it was done as a sort of
permanent dresser herself. -- dress rehearsal. people wore their street clothes. when burton was at his height, he just married elizabeth taylor. there were people lined up around the block, clamoring like groupies at a rock concert. i wish i had seen him in person. people say it just had -- he changed the loose cannon interpretation. the visceral charge of it was incredible. >> here is richard burton. >> so he goes to him and so, my revenge. the villain kills my father.
>> even though there is such obvious anger and charismatic anger, you can also see his own softness. he is rationalizing and it really wrangles him. >> there was also this conflict within richard burton. he had been a great actor and he chose a different style. >> as john barrymore did. >> exactly. >> hamlet was the peak and after that, it was down. he was a glamorous hamlet. for a long time, i grew up thinking of hamlet as a glamorous figure. >> here is another insert from -- excerpt from kenneth branagh. he has been more about shakespeare than anyone over the life of his career.
>> henry the fifth is still so much fun. >> take a look at this. >> i knew him. bellow of infinite jest, most awesome fancy. -- most excellent fancy. he had borne me on his back 1000 times. and now what imagination it is. those lips that i have kissed i know not how often. where be your gibes now? your songs, your flashes of merriment. not one now to mock your own grinning, quite chock full.
now get you to my ladies chamber. tell her that to this favor she must come. pray, horatio, tell me one thing. >> what is that? >> does they'll think alexander did this fashion on the earth? >> i want to talk about mark one more time. there is a story that you touch on -- because he plays enormously deranged. he plays in front of an audience that is legitimately people. >> they toured with hamlet and went to the institution and broadmoor. he played hamlet in his soiled pajamas. i saw it two years later in a different context. still, truly crazy. one of the inmates ran up and
said, you are really loony. take it from me. i am crazy. i know. >> i know because i am loony. >> exactly. no higher praise could be offered. >> it seems like acting but it is not. you are there. >> he is a great actor and can do so much in so many different tongues. when i saw him, he was still playing with the idea of a guy, once he decides he's going to be crazy, that he may, in fact, be crazy. >> you were attracted to the ideas. the man in black with the skull. >> oh yes. when i was a kid, my granddaddy taught shakespeare. i looked through his books and there were always the plates in his books, the etchings. just as we saw branagh claim
with that iconography in the movie. >> when you look at all these, is there one, for you, that is for you, because it is an individual judgment? >> there have been a lot i have enjoyed. a lot of reductions i have -- productions i have enjoyed. probably the single most revelatory hamlet for me was -- i saw him first do it in london and later at the brooklyn academy. he is the short, squat, not remotely glamorous. what he gave you was total transparency. it was the only time when i saw it where the contradictions in hamlet made sense. he made sure he followed every step of the journey.
a guy who has known life only as a student who was suddenly confronted with reality. i still think about it. broke my heart. >> you said that you could feel it for weeks. >> you do not stop. i would love to see it again. i have seen him as lear, so we have moved on, obviously. but that was the most thoroughly thought out hamlet i have ever saw. >> do you think lear is becoming the new hamlet? >> he has certainly been reformed a lot. graduated from the macbeth years to the king lear years. >> franklin was about the right age. >> i think john lithgow was probably the right age.
it is probably imagined. being close to 80 and still being able to memorize all that and create that sense of rage, he is sort of hamlet's heir. here is someone who looks at the world with clear eyes for the first time and says, i did not sign up for this. in new york, the play that is fabulous is by stephen astley gherkins. it is called "sweet riverside and crazy." it is the best play about lying and how it is an essential part of our lives. it is terrific. it stars stephen mckinley henderson, a staple of all of his productions. it is beautiful. >> thank you.
>> "the giver" is a novel first published in 1993. it follows a boy as he learns the truth about the world he lives in. the book has sold over 11 million copies worldwide. in 1994, it won the newberry medal, the most prestigious prize for literature in the united states. it has also been on the top of the american library association's list of banned and challenged books. it is now a movie. here is the trailer. >> from great suffering came a solution, community. serene, beautiful places where disorder became harmony. ♪ >> do you get to fly to the edge? >> oh yeah. >> what is best? >> i do not know. not a lot of flight testing. >> let's go.
♪ >> they are called books. >> hello? >> who are you? >> the giver. memories of the past. our world is different. there was more. much more. you will see them all in time. people chose to do away with emotions. just take them away. >> people have the freedom to choose. they choose wrong. >> what do you feel? >> you are not usually like this. >> i am surprised you are not more worried about him. >> you should know better than anyone. >> the way things look and the
way things are are very different. there is no way for me to prepare you for the truth. the young and the old are killed. >> there are things you do not know. >> you are scared of me? >> go back to your family. this has become dangerous. >> i know that there is something more. >> comfortable? >> there has to be a way to show them. >> you can stop this. you can change things. >> i want you to fight him and then i want you to lose him. >> the director, phillip noyce. jeff bridges plays the giver and is a producer on the film.
brenton thwaites plays jonas. and lois lowry. what a great group at one table. welcome, one and all. you first read this when it first came out? >> a couple of years after. 18 years ago. i was looking for a project. and i saw this wonderful cover when i was looking through a catalog of kids books because i wanted my kids to see this movie. i came across this cover with a real old guy on the cover and i said, this looks interesting. i started to read it and i loved it. it was a kids book. as an adult, i was just knocked out to find out my kids said, we studied that book in school. there is a lesson plan. i am getting more and more excited. i said this would be a cinch to get off the ground. and then i find it is on the list of banned books as well,
which further excited me, which further excited me. but it proved to be quite difficult to the controversy stopped us from getting this through for 18 years. the world that lois created is an amazing one and a lot of the story takes place in jonas' mind. the challenge was, how do we get this to financiers where they can see what we have in mind. we went through at least a half a dozen writers and directors. >> and so it took you that many years. >> 18 years and i started to look more and more like the grizzled guy on the cover. >> what are you saying about memory? >> i have always been interested in the subject of memory.
the idea of this book name from my father, who was probably 90 at the time, was beginning to lose his and had forgotten my older sister, his first child, who had died young. i began to think him a what would it be like if we could obliterate memories that have made us sad, the bad things in our lives. would that be a good thing? and the writer begins to think like that and the story takes shape. to answer your question, what do i think about memory, i came to the conclusion that memories are the most vital part of us. >> memory does terrible things to them so that they would go to great lengths to erase memory. >> well, the people in this book have done that. it was a choice they have made with the best of intentions. >> when you saw the screenplay, what did you want? >> i read the book first and
thought, what a seductive world. we do not have to wake up every morning to all of this destruction and hate. that is what first attracted me. this so-called utopia that turns out to be a dystopia. i thought that was very compelling, the idea that there was something here. that, in exchange for memory, we can live in peace. >> it is all about the trade-off. >> does not sound like a healthy trade-off to me. >> very unhealthy, but a compelling one. and more compelling every day. >> and do you feel a connection to jonas, the character? >> i always feel a connection to characters i take on. >> is it a prerequisite for you?
>> if you cannot take them on the journey, you cannot feel it. a young man who has been brought up who starts to discover something else inside him. heart, emotion, feeling, color, love. and then inevitably acts on that knowledge. >> it is extraordinary when they talk about what it is like. >> that is what happens to his character. >> and did you see jonas? >> i saw him as an innocent boy who was very happy and comfortable. the question i raised is that
what is he did not feel like he was feeling at the beginning of the film? would he have lived a happy life in his community? i enjoyed him to receive the memory of the history of the world. it is stunning, that journey. watching the trailer took me back to my headspace when i was first arriving and the nerves and the anxiety that i felt meeting the giver and working with jeff. this will movie, for me, was a huge parallel into how jonas is feeling. >> tell me about the role of the giver. >> society realizes that memory is valuable. but it must be contained. so the giver is a fellow who retains all of the histories of
the world and he counseled the elders from time to time to give them advice. that is his role. his time is coming to an end. he will find someone in the community and the elders have tracked all of the kids as they are growing up. one of the things that the kids do not have to do anymore is choose what they want to do. that is handled for them. there is a ceremony or that happens and he is chosen to be a giver -- the receiver, i am sorry. and i am the giver. >> in a way, i become the giver also. as a baby, you feel things. >> partly, i suppose, because i grew up on army post. there is a rigid, orderly community.
one time, i lived in postwar tokyo and i lived in a compound with a wall around it. on the other side of the wall was the colorful, noisy, vibrant city of tokyo. i lived in a place where all the houses were the same and all the people were the same. there was no gate in that wall and i had a bicycle. at that age, i very often rode by myself into the streets. i have always been somebody who, like jonas, wants to see beyond. part of that background at these various army installations was the flight into that world. >> casting meryl streep -- >> casting jeff bridges. >> but he is the producer. >> that was the worry. my boss or my playmate?
but he came in every day as the giver. >> exactly where you wanted to be. >> you are -- you have jeff and you have meryl. >> i had screen tested about a year before for another film. i heard about this kid from northern queensland. i heard about his graduation performance. >> what was your graduation performance? >> me and my buddy took our clothes off and put chains in our hands and pretended we were in a filipino jail. it is very dark and quite funny. we thought it was an opportunity to get really deep and have a
funny layer to it. >> did you write it? >> no, it was written. >> it was notorious. >> it was like the film in your garage. i do not know if it is going to come out. >> we often entertain each other so i had this idea that my father goes -- i said, let's make the movie right now. we will get casey to shoot it. his youngest son plays jonas. we shot the whole book and narrated it. for the dvd, i am hoping to find it. >> did you see this? >> i have not seen it in 18 years, but we have it somewhere. >> just the two of you? >> it was important to me, as a
producer, to get everyone on the same page. this is the story we are going to tell. we assembled as many of the cast members -- my brother actually narrated the book. we had a big table and we read the book to each other. >> a year later, we were casting "the giver," casting for jonas. initially, the part was for a 13-year-old. we decided to up the ages in order to maybe give access to a wider audience. that is when he came back in again and knocked it out of the park. >> how did he knock it out of the park? >> well, he literally knocked it out of the park because he was
auditioning with catherine monahan and he knocked him through the wall. >> in the scenes we were auditioning for, a fight scene between my character and his. philip would say -- i would say, how are we going to do the fight scene? i am not going to fight 10 guys today. he is like, just improvise. i was thinking, really? improvise a fight scene? if some guy wants to fight me, i am going to have to fight him back. philip just watches it go. i ended up fighting 10 guys that day. >> this film, is it the book in your head?
>> well, it is now, of course. i have been watching this film developed over the past year. now, when i think about the book, it is the same thing that i see. the kids in the book were younger. that is what i used to see. now, when i think of the kids, i think of them. >> is it a very coming-of-age story as well? >> it is. as a matter of fact, i wonder how they will relate to the age difference now. a lot of jewish people give this as a bar mitzvah gift because the boys turning 13 and they see it as a coming-of-age. a lot of crystal churches have -- christian churches have it incorporated into their curriculum because they see it as a christian allegory. it covers a lot of bases. >> so who is banning the book? >> very conservative groups. i cannot give them names.
>> what is their objection? >> it is hard for me to know because i sometimes take things out of context and dangle a passage that they do not like. there is a pivotal moment in the book which is also in the movie. i hate to do spoilers, but it is -- >> you should talk about the scene that we cut out that you were very excited -- >> there is another controversial scene. >> did not make the cut. >> it was a scene that some parents objected to in the book. the boy takes care of old people. there is a lovely, tender scene in which he is bathing an elderly woman in a bathtub. >> in the bathtub with her. >> he is not in the bathtub with her.
>> but i jokingly told jeff, i said, i am sorry they cut that out because that was to be my cameo role. i am old enough to play the old lady in the bathtub. he keeps repeating that as if it were me being serious. that was one thing they objected to. the boy with a nude lady. there was a reference to sexual feelings in a young boy, very oblique. another very difficult scene in which a newborn baby is killed. >> another reason it was on the banned books list is because it falls right into the themes of our film, trying to protect our children and protect us from things that are frightening and the darker sides of life. >> and the parents who want to ban the book are doing so with the most benevolent intentions. they want to protect their kids. the irony is that in the society
portrayed in the world, there are no books that would have been because people had to protect their community and have removed books. >> i love the library of the giver. >> 30,000 books. >> here is a scene between meryl and jeff. take a look. >> we are moving too fast. we both know what happened 10 years ago. >> the girl had a name. i know you feel wrong. >> the boy must hold in the pain. do not fail us again. >> she is chilling. >> tell me the scene.
>> prior to -- jonas' character, the giver, and another receiver to give the memories to. there was a failure and it did not happen. should i reveal what happens to this girl or not? >> well, you went too fast. [laughter] >> i went too fast and gave her too much, too soon. it blew her mind. as long as we're talking about actors, i want to yell out -- i will say it quietly, but rush, this is a young actor who is wonderful in the film, playing fiona. >> i date him not to turn it
-- i begged him not to turn it into a teenage romance movie and they did not, but there are three kisses. >> what else influenced you? i am interested in your mind while writing this book. >> very hard to swing back to -- to think back to where my mind was 21 years ago. all writers are influenced by everything they have ever read. you mentioned the classic dystopian literature. i always create a character and place him in a situation where he has to make a journey and he is going to have a hard time. by the end of it, he is going to be changed. i do that with the hope that the reader will enter the same journey and that the reader will also be changed by the end of it. i think that is true of this book and this movie. i cannot claim it to be true for all of my books, but i think this book does. >> how many copies has its own? -- has it sold? >> over 10 million.
it fluctuates. ish forauthors should whi such. thank you all. it was a pleasure to have you here. great to see you. the movie "the giver" opens this friday, august 15. you will be hearing a lot about it. among other reasons, because harvey is promoting it. [laughter] but also because of what they have done here. you can see that it has the possibility to appeal to a cross-section of audiences, not only with the acting and the directing and fascinating players, but also an interesting connection to a range of ideas. thank you for joining us. see you next time. ♪
>> live from pier 3 in san francisco, welcome to "bloomberg west," where we cover innovation, technology, and future of business. i am cory johnson, in for emily chang. president obama sending attorney general eric holder to ferguson, missouri. >> now's the time for healing. now is the time for peace and calm on the streets of ferguson. now is the time for an open and transparent process to see that justice is done. >> the president urged calm in the st. louis suburbs. live tweeting and youtube videos